🌳 Généalogie ROUX-GALATEAU
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Renier Ii DE CHOISEUL ◉ Sosa : 3 293 430
Renier Ii DE CHOISEULParents
- Renier DE CHOISEUL ~1250-~1311
- Isabeau DE LOR †1347
Union(s) et enfant(s)
-
Marié en 1303, avec
Isabelle VON SALM †1344
dont
- Isabeau DE CHOISEUL ◉ Sosa 1 646 715
Événements
- entre 1275 et 1290 :
- Naissance
- 1303 :
- Mariage (avec Isabelle VON SALM) : Mariage religieux
- vers 1340 :
- Décès
Notes
Notes individuelles
RENIER [II] de Choiseul ([1275/90]-[Jan 1340/Oct 1345]).
The primary source which confirms his parentage has not been identified, although his existence and position in the Choiseul-Aigremont line of descent is indicated by the documents quoted below in which he is named.
Seigneur d’Aigremont. The [1338] memoire concerning Ostrevant, quoted below, names “monseigneur Renier de Choysel” as the second husband of Isabelle von Salm. The epithet “monseigneur” suggests that he was head of the family at the time, therefore had already succeeded his father as seigneur d’Aigremont. It is possible that the three charters dated 1320, 2 May 1324 and 25 Jul 1325 which name “Renier Seigneur d’Aigremont”[160] refer to Renier [II], although as noted above this depends on a definite assessment of the date of death of Renier [I].
As in the case of Renier [I], information regarding the date of death of Renier [II] is uncertain. The epitaph at Morimond which records “Regnier de Choiseul sire d’Aigremont seigneur“ who died Jan 1339 (presumably O.S.) could refer to him[161].
In any case, his death before Oct 1345 appears corroborated by his wife’s declaration dated 25 Jul 1344 (see below), a note on the reverse of which notes that [Renier [II]’s two younger sons] “messires Guillaume de Choisel chevalier et Gérars ses frers escuiers” passed similar acts “peu après la Toussaint 1345”[162].
If Renier [II] had been alive at that time, he would have represented the interests of his younger sons whose confirmations would not then have been necessary. Nevertheless, some doubt is introduced by the summary of the charter dated 2 Jan 1348 quoted above. That document names “Renier de Choiseul sire d’Aigremont” and “son père feu Renier de Choiseul chevalier, la veuve de celui-ci feu Isabelle de Lor dame de Vielsmaisons...”. When read literally, the first person named would be Renier [II], the stepson of Isabelle de Lor, who if that is correct could have died [2 Jan/19 Mar] 1348 (the second date referring to another charter quoted below which names Renier [II]’s sons, assuming that document is dated according to the Julian calendar). However, the same summary also names “son frère Guillaume chevalier, son autre frère Girard écuyer” who, in light of the other documents quoted below, were presumably the brothers of Renier [III]. It would be unlikely in particular that Gérard would still be “écuyer” in the mid-14th century if he had been the brother of Renier [II], and in any case the names Guillaume and Gérard appear to have been introduced into the Choiseul-Aigremont family from Isabelle von Salm’s family. Until more information comes to light, it is assumed that the summary of the 2 Jan 1348 charter is in some way garbled and that Renier [II] died before Oct 1345.
Date de décès complétée le 19/01/2026 depuis la publication en ligne de jeanr31
https://online.heredis.com/file/290378/immediate/22316&target=blank
RENIER [II] de Choiseul ([1275/90]-[Jan 1340/Oct 1345]).
The primary source which confirms his parentage has not been identified, although his existence and position in the Choiseul-Aigremont line of descent is indicated by the documents quoted below in which he is named.
Seigneur d’Aigremont. The [1338] memoire concerning Ostrevant, quoted below, names “monseigneur Renier de Choysel” as the second husband of Isabelle von Salm. The epithet “monseigneur” suggests that he was head of the family at the time, therefore had already succeeded his father as seigneur d’Aigremont. It is possible that the three charters dated 1320, 2 May 1324 and 25 Jul 1325 which name “Renier Seigneur d’Aigremont”[160] refer to Renier [II], although as noted above this depends on a definite assessment of the date of death of Renier [I].
As in the case of Renier [I], information regarding the date of death of Renier [II] is uncertain. The epitaph at Morimond which records “Regnier de Choiseul sire d’Aigremont seigneur“ who died Jan 1339 (presumably O.S.) could refer to him[161].
In any case, his death before Oct 1345 appears corroborated by his wife’s declaration dated 25 Jul 1344 (see below), a note on the reverse of which notes that [Renier [II]’s two younger sons] “messires Guillaume de Choisel chevalier et Gérars ses frers escuiers” passed similar acts “peu après la Toussaint 1345”[162].
If Renier [II] had been alive at that time, he would have represented the interests of his younger sons whose confirmations would not then have been necessary. Nevertheless, some doubt is introduced by the summary of the charter dated 2 Jan 1348 quoted above. That document names “Renier de Choiseul sire d’Aigremont” and “son père feu Renier de Choiseul chevalier, la veuve de celui-ci feu Isabelle de Lor dame de Vielsmaisons...”. When read literally, the first person named would be Renier [II], the stepson of Isabelle de Lor, who if that is correct could have died [2 Jan/19 Mar] 1348 (the second date referring to another charter quoted below which names Renier [II]’s sons, assuming that document is dated according to the Julian calendar). However, the same summary also names “son frère Guillaume chevalier, son autre frère Girard écuyer” who, in light of the other documents quoted below, were presumably the brothers of Renier [III]. It would be unlikely in particular that Gérard would still be “écuyer” in the mid-14th century if he had been the brother of Renier [II], and in any case the names Guillaume and Gérard appear to have been introduced into the Choiseul-Aigremont family from Isabelle von Salm’s family. Until more information comes to light, it is assumed that the summary of the 2 Jan 1348 charter is in some way garbled and that Renier [II] died before Oct 1345.
Date de décès complétée le 19/01/2026 depuis la publication en ligne de jeanr31
https://online.heredis.com/file/290378/immediate/22316&target=blank